156 advice?

[KJE]

Hello all,

I am an American living and working in Germany for 3 years, and I would appreciate advice on the good and bad of living with the 156.

Currently I am driving a Peugeot 307 (rented, at HUGE cost by company) but want something more distinctive. Cars I am considering are the 156 or the Subaru WRX/WRX Sti. Leases are much less € than what the Peugeot 307 costs per month (almost 1000€!)

Yesterday I test drove a 2001 2.0L JTS, and today I should be testing the 2.5L V6 version.

My impressions of the 2.0L is that is is a willing enough engine, with nice sounds and decent power, but the shift action could have been sharper. Steering and braking felt excellent.

My biggest dissapointment was with throttle response. I don't know if all "electronic" throttles (no cable) are this slow to respond (perhaps, my Peugeot is similar, maybe a bit quicker even). I like to be able to "blip" the throttle, and with the 2L 156 there was a long time lag between throttle pushing and engine revving.

Are any of the available gearboxes much better than others? I drove the 5-speed, but I am curious about the "selespeed" and "Q-System". Unfortuneately the salesman speaks almost no English...

I like the practicality and looks of the Sportwagon, but of course what ultimately matters is driving satisfaction. The 2002 interior is attractive and comfortable.

Most of the driving will be slow city driving, but at least once per year I will drive to the Nürburgring, and there is a new race track here in Eastern Germany that may be possible to drive.

On Monday I will test drive the WRX, and hopefully the Sti version.

I appreciate any comments (in English) - Ich lerne Deutsches jetzt, aber es ist ein langsamer Prozeß...

Also, is the upgraded "Bose" sound system with subwoofer significantly better than the standard system? I would likely choose the 6-disc CD changer, perhaps the Bose system.

vielen Dank!

Kurt
Görlitz

[alfistagj]

Dunno why, but you thread is "closed"!

My respons:
Even though I feel the Subaru's are quite a bargain financially and having driven one as well, there is no chance I would favor it over the 2.5V6
That engine is near perfect and can certainly challange the Subaru.
The 2.0 JTS is a good engine, but no party to a 2.5V6 or the Subaru; simply not enough power and torque.

For all Alfa's you should keep in mind that engine and gearbox need some 10-15000km to get "loose" and perform at their best; don't ask me why this is typical for Alfa, but it simply is.........
That feeling of lake of power is just that: A feeling.
Get the chrono and take the accelaration times.
The "ease" Alfa's do their job may fool you.
And don't forget that it is part of the Alfa heritage to make engines that love to be rev'd; don't be careful (but wait until the engine is at it's operating temperatures) and just push that right pedal to the floor in all gears. FUN!!

As a whole, the Alfa is much more a "car" compared to a "means of transport"; nicer interior, beautiful exterior, better materials etc.

My father has the BOSE set in his Lancia and I love it, but my SW with the standard speaker set and a VDO-DAYTON CD3300 (incl. an electronic equalizer) sounds quite o.k. as well.

[KJE]

Thanks for the reply!

Today I drove a '00 156 2.5L V6 (60,000 km) just to get a feel for the big motor. This car has been sitting at the dealer for 5 months, so that may explain the slight "stuttering" at two or three points while accerating (new plugs? wires? something).

I was MUCH happier with the throttle response vs. the 2L JTS - jab the gas peddle and the tach responded quickly. The sound was better also - deeper, stronger, like the 2.0L with the bass turned up. Power was nice - chirping the tires when taking off, good, flat power curve except for the missing.

However, the cost of the V6 is significantly more - about 620€/month vs. 530€/month for the 2L JTS, so I must think.

Tomorrow I drive a 2L JTS with Selespeed. Tonight I have visions of Formel 1 and Ferrari 360 Modena in my head. This gearbox sounds very high-tech: 5 gang clutchless manual with paddle shifters. Anybody here have one?

In the USA I have a 1976 Spider with weber carbs. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about the glorious sounds, the sensation of speed (even if you aren't going very fast), the blood red paint..

Monday I drive the Scoobies.

Don't know why my post was locked - thanks for starting a new one!

Kurt

[LaTiNo]

Hi

I once made the mistake to get a 1.6 engine and no airco instead of a 1.8 just because of economics. The next year I got a raise and it would have covered the extra $$$ easily. From that moment on I regretted not to have chosen what I really wanted!!

I would say, go for the V6 if you can (without selling your house etc.). You might regret it for some time.

Besides, I fear that you might choose such an ugly Subaru because the JTS can't compare with it's power!

[KJE]

Hi all,

Well I had a test drive of a 2.0JTS SW this weekend. A 3-day test drive! Owner of the local AR dealer gave me the keys to a ’02 demo w/ 7000 km on Friday and I will either return it tonight or sign a rental contract he is preparing today. My company is stupidly refusing to participate in a lease. OK. Kein Problem. I’ll just switch my rental Hertz Peugeot 307 for a rental Autohaus-Shultz 156 SW. Costs me the same and I’ll even save the company some $$$, so they can’t complain!

Also had 15 minutes in a '01 Selespeed 2L TS. VERY interesting. But I'll do my own clutch work, thank you...

The demo JTS SW I may end up in is a dashing Grigio Sterling Grey outside over dark red leather, stocked with navigation, CD Changer (which stopped working on Saturday night!), 5 spoke wheels, and Sport Pac. No sunroof (going to see if one can be installed), and no stereo controls on steering wheel. This wouldn’t be so bad if the Navi/CD head unit had buttons designed for regular sized fingers.

I’m in love with the car. Looks stunning (I keep glancing over my shoulder as I walk away...) and through the twisties it feels like an extension of my body – so nicely balanced, everything just feels right. True, the motor won't win many drag races, and the tranny doesn’t like to be hurried, especially from 4-5, but the underachieving drivetrain just lets the rest of the car shine. Unlike my Peugeot 307 Hdi, which builds speed so unemotionally, the Alfa feels faster than it is. This is a good thing to me!! Keeps speeding tickets away!

Thanks for your input LaTiNo. Funny, Alfa and Subaru owners seem to have a playful, if a little bitter rivalry going on! My Subaru buddy recommends the Alfa if I am “grown up”. OOOFFFF!!!! That was a low blow... but surely motivated by his jealously of the Alfa's looks. I'm so satisfied with this weekend's drives the Subaru drive is really unnecessary for anything other than curiousity.

Plus, this weekend I crossed paths with 4 other Alfas, and got 4 waves or light flashes. The brohterhood of Alfas is alive and well in East Germany! So this is what you were talking about Black Beauty... I see now!

In choosing the engine size one of the main things I’m thinking about (besides monthly car payments, which wouldn’t matter in the case of a rental) is fuel. The Middle East doesn’t need any more of my money. I could certainly afford it, but I don’t want to give anymore of it to the oil-companies. You have to draw the line somewhere, and for me that line is right above the 2.0 JTS. I might even drive the JTD tonight, but I will be very surprised if this is more appealing than the JTS with its ability to rev.

Note: My everyday driver in the States was a ’89 Taurus SHO.
With all due respect to you Gert-Jan, in the “Best V6 ever” competition the Alfa 2.5/3.2 might have to share top honors with the Yamaha V6 in the SHO from 1989-1995. This 3.0L unit puts out about 230 hp stock with a flat torque curve, uses duel length intake runners, sounds like a huge sportbike motor, loves to be revved past 6000, and looks better than any engine I have ever seen.

Some pics in the “Misc Car pix” album:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/kedelbach

Did all of the work myself (clutch, Tokico/Eibachs, bigger brakes, much more), drove it everyday from 90,000 miles to 180,000 miles, including a few track days. Engine has never been apart.

OK I'm babbling, but I know what a big V6 with "lakes of power" feels like, and still the little JTS is something I can drive and not constantly wish for more power.

ok I'd better get some work done here...

cheers!

Kurt

[KJE]

Hi All,

The Sterling Grey over Red leather 2002 156 SW 2.0 JTS has been my steed for almost a month now, and it seems like a good time to report back. This is a long-term rental from a local Alfa dealer with 7000 km, so I did not get to choose the exact options I would have with a purchase. As a rule if it is not a convertible, I have a sunroof. I also prefer stereo buttons on the steering wheel. This model has neither. Regardless, she's well enough equipped. On with the opinions then:


PROS

- Uh, look at it... Inside and out, striking design. Now I have an idea what it must be like to be a gorgeous woman walking down the street, causing heads to turn and hearts to yearn. Every drive is a contribution to the beautification of my city. A dynamic testament to art and aesthetics.

- Climate control is logically operated, HVAC works ok, even with the rather small vents. Chrome adjusting rings are a little slick, but click nicely.

- Leather steering wheel is thick, much like the Momo Club 4 I had in my Taurus SHO back in the USA. But to make the supplemental volume buttons optional is pretty chintzy IMO.

- Trip computer is easy to use and understand. Language on mine is set on "Italiano" of course!

- returns a quite acceptable 29 mpg over mixed driving. Cruising above 160 kph will make this plummet though...

- I have not really pushed the handling envelope yet, but at 8/10 the balance is so nice, the steering precise and communicative, the suspension compliant and very nicely suited to the task at hand, whether creeping along a rough alley or slaloming through the back roads. At the moment I'm happy with the 16" wheel/tire combination - sticky enough for me and I'm not always concerned with mucking rims while street parking.

- gets up to 190 kph with haste. Torqey 2.0 JTS makes it a frisky ride. Above 190 you have to "kick it" as Black Beauty says, but cruising the autobahn at 190 gobbles up the kilometres fast enough for me. If mine wasn't a rental (3 year), I would look into aftermarket exhausts just to hear the motor a little clearer, but the growl is there.

- Piddling around town its a little tricky to be smooth with the clutch/throttle/gear change, and on cobblestones the ride is firm, quite firm. But release the hounds on a wide open, twisty road, and the whole experience markedly changes, the car starts to smile... Like a horse's gait smoothing out when it hits it stride, the car is happiest when shifts come post 5000+ rpms...

- the waves/light flashes from other Alfas is heart warming!

CONS

- stock stereo (Navigation head unit, 6 disc changer in back) is weak. Acoustics aren't bad, but I just don't hear the full range of notes or powerful bass present in the rented Ford Mondeo which preceded the 156. I've never been a fan of Bose for home stereos - their car stereo division isn't much better apparently. Buttons on the Bose unit are tiny (the slippery volume knob in particular), and my car doesn't have the optional volume buttons on steering wheel....

- seats (red leather) don't keep me in place as well as I'd like. The "sport" seats only come with the black interior.

- seating position is classic alfa - pedals close, wheel far-away, just like in my '76 spider back home. Part of the charm I keep saying, that you have to adapt to the car rather than have the car fit you... I am looking at replacement shift knobs though - the pointed, thin stock one just doesn't feel right in my hand. Center armrest is too short and either too hard or just not in the best place for me.

- gear change is slightly rubbery - going cross gate from 2-3 or 4-5 you simply have to be deliberate. The Mondeo gear action was more mechanical and satisfying, sadly...

- throttle response is slow. Hurts the around-town smoothness, but with practice I'm sure this will improve. Still, its a shame not to get an immediate response when the gas peddle is jabbed.

- what cubby/storage space there is small and not very useful. No sunglass bin overhead. Glove box is very small.


CONS I believe result from constraints imposed by the svelte body, so I'll cut Alfa some slack:

- if it rained during the night, or is raining, and you crack the driver's window, the inside door panel with that luscious leather and the fancy black material will get wet. Also your arm. Best to carry a towel to wipe things down. I suppose Alfa couldn't engineer rain-gutters in without spoiling the lines.

- little room in foot well. If you have big feet and wear big wide shoes, the gas and clutch easily become one pedal.


Despite the cons outnumbering the pros, she's a keeper.... if only I could bring her back to the USA with me!

cheers

Kurt